🧪🧮 We CAN test big policy ideas without slowing government down: Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation 🧮🧪 Artwork

The Westminster Tradition

Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission.
In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.

Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians.

In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.

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The Westminster Tradition

🧪🧮 We CAN test big policy ideas without slowing government down: Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation 🧮🧪

August 04, 2026 • The Westminster Tradition • Season 4 • Episode 14

0:00 | 39:57

We talk with Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation about making evaluation fast, rigorous, and genuinely useful for public service decisions. We move from a 40,000-person employment services RCT to the practical steps that make testing possible, then unpack why transparency and mixed methods matter when the stakes are high. Along the way we discuss:

turning a mutual obligation debate into a 'fact question' through a large three-arm randomised controlled trial
why a null result can be a powerful policy signal
the enablers that make responsive RCTs feasible, from systems to leadership to ethics and consent
how ACE partners with departments through a hub-and-spoke model, secondments, and capability building
planning evaluation from day one using program logic and theory of change
separating program cost from evaluation cost to make smarter investment decisions
publishing and normalising evidence through the ACE Evaluation Library
using developmental evaluation and test-and-learn without getting stuck refining measures forever
what decision makers value under time pressure, including “killer stats” plus narrative and qualitative insight
improving services with small, fast trials like pre-call SMS nudges at Services Australia

Mentioned in this episode:

This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!