Bonus Episode: Dr Darren O'Donovon on centering the victims of Robodebt, the fragmentation of knowledge and accountability, and the creation of moral discomfort Artwork

The Westminster Tradition

Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission.
In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.

Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians.

In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.

All Episodes

The Westminster Tradition

Bonus Episode: Dr Darren O'Donovon on centering the victims of Robodebt, the fragmentation of knowledge and accountability, and the creation of moral discomfort

November 16, 2023 • Season 1

In this in-depth and wide-ranging interview, Dr Darren O'Donovan, Senior Lecturer at La Trobe University Law School, reflects on what it was like being on the outside looking in at Robodebt.

*This was recorded before the release of the Government's response to the Royal Commission.*

Some references from the interview include:

Frank Kafka Before the Law
Pamela Herd and Donald Moynihan Administrative Burden: Policymaking by other means (2019)
Homi Bhabha The Other Question: Stereotype, discrimination and the discourse of colonialism (2001)
Evidence from Michael Kerr-Brown re ATO being well positioned to push back against the DHS request, transcript from 12 December 2022 p. 1615
Nick Gill, Nothing Personal? Geographies of Governing and Activism in the British Asylum System (2015)
Darren O'Donovan Victims now know they were right about robodebt all along at The Conversation

Grabs included are:

Angus Scott KC, Louise Macleod (Ombudsman) and Commissioner Holmes, 8 March
Jason McNamara (DHS) and Angus Scott KC, 5 December 2022
Commissioner Holmes and Michael Kerr-Brown (ATO), 12 December 2022
Tim Ffrench (DHS), 22 February 2022

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!